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Author	Topic: Evans Waterless Engine Coolant has anyone else used this?	Post a Reply Back to Topics

jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 10, 2012 7:09:24 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse I just ran across this at Jay Leno's garage. Seems that Jay Leno has used this product in his high dollar restorations for some 15 years. Since it has no water it is not corrosive and never needs to be changed. It also has a boiling point of 375-400 degrees so you don't need to keep the cooling system under pressure and the engine operating tempertures rise. At the higher tempertures the efficiency goes up too and they are claiming as much as a 10% increase in mileage. I is expensive($39. a gallon) but if you never need to change it, cooling system components last longe and you get better mileage it may be worth it.

jimmy544

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Boston

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Message Posted: Jan 10, 2012 7:09:24 AM

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I just ran across this at Jay Leno's garage. Seems that Jay Leno has used this product in his high dollar restorations for some 15 years. Since it has no water it is not corrosive and never needs to be changed. It also has a boiling point of 375-400 degrees so you don't need to keep the cooling system under pressure and the engine operating tempertures rise. At the higher tempertures the efficiency goes up too and they are claiming as much as a 10% increase in mileage.

I is expensive($39. a gallon) but if you never need to change it, cooling system components last longe and you get better mileage it may be worth it.

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jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2012 8:02:04 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse chemist this is true the specific heat of water is 1 and a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol and water is about .81 the Evans Waterless is about .7 and makes up the difference by running hotter and not needing a pressure cap. Running pure water works for a while until the corrosion catches up with the system. No corrosion with the Evans at all.
chemist74 Champion Author Cleveland Posts:13,510 Points:2,395,980 Joined:Apr 2005	Message Posted: Feb 7, 2012 5:28:24 AM Ignore chemist74 Report Abuse I am not familiar with the product but the ability to transfer heat increases with the heat capacity of the coolant. Very few coolants have a higher heat capacity than plain water.
PaylessKY Champion Author Kentucky Posts:8,715 Points:1,580,475 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 9:29:13 AM Ignore PaylessKY Report Abuse No
gws2980 Champion Author Philadelphia Posts:2,181 Points:500,365 Joined:Oct 2010	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 8:54:19 AM Ignore gws2980 Report Abuse never heard of it. But I will look it up and see the beneifits. Thanks
OilerFan Champion Author Tulsa Posts:14,040 Points:2,446,600 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 8:05:28 AM Ignore OilerFan Report Abuse I've never tried it.
jay93LA Champion Author New Orleans Posts:2,444 Points:598,735 Joined:Aug 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 6:28:39 AM Ignore jay93LA Report Abuse recently heard of it. sounds interesting
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Feb 4, 2012 5:21:25 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse I have found this on E-bay for 34 dollars.
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 25, 2012 10:11:55 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse anyone else out there has used this???
PawsVette Champion Author Naples Posts:3,119 Points:690,140 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 9:13:07 PM Ignore PawsVette Report Abuse no
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 10:14:50 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse Another question for PhilinTX: Are regular radiator hoses and heater hoses compatible with this Evans Waterless Coolant? Any thing other than flushing the system necessary to do with this material?
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 18, 2012 9:54:02 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse Theory says that everything else being equal if the operating temperatures increase it results in a better efficiency. Now the operative issue is if everything else is equal. I have noticed that my best fuel economy is in the summer at higher operating temps. The thermostat in your car can only regulate the temps between when it just opens and when it is fully open. After it is fully open the operating temperature is controlled by fluid flow through the cooling system, ambient air temperature and air flow through the radiator. Of course the system is limited by the boil over temperature of the water based coolant and the pressure relief of the cooling system. Have you ever driven extensive distances at temperatures over 100 F? It would seem to me that if you had a coolant that allowed adequate heat transfer at a higher temp that water-based coolants you could see an increase in efficiency. I would like to hear from someone who has done some work on this question.
plastic Champion Author Virginia Posts:46,806 Points:2,838,145 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jan 17, 2012 11:23:54 AM Ignore plastic Report Abuse Higher engine temperature does not necessarily mean better fuel economy. There is a design optimum temperature. Your cooling system will strive to maintain that optimum temperature regardless of the type of coolant you use. That stuff is really not meant for the standard vehicle.
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 17, 2012 9:46:50 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse Thanks for your post PhilnTX you are the first person I have contacted that has used this coolant. You used it on a hot rod with an aluminum engine. And you say it runs cooler than regular antifreeze. Interesting as I thought that it might not have the specific heat of regular antifreeze and so would run hotter. Did you delete the pressure cap or did you use a lower pressure cap? Did you use a stock radiator for the engine or was it a custom radiator? I would like to try this and run a higher engine temperature to attempt higher fuel economy but I do appreciate what you have done.
PhilnTX All-Star Author Dallas Posts:656 Points:435,330 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 12:13:09 PM Ignore PhilnTX Report Abuse Use it in my hot rod truck. Works much better than regular antifreeze. Runs cooler at much lower pressure. I don't think it will offer much towards economy, but if you have an all aluminum engine and/or a high dollar vehicle, I would highly recommend it.
WEPSMAN Champion Author South Dakota Posts:10,513 Points:2,023,925 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 5:44:10 AM Ignore WEPSMAN Report Abuse Never heard of it.
jetta_gia Veteran Author Toronto Posts:279 Points:240,340 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 2:00:11 AM Ignore jetta_gia Report Abuse no
jetta_gia Veteran Author Toronto Posts:279 Points:240,340 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 2:00:10 AM Ignore jetta_gia Report Abuse no
jetta_gia Veteran Author Toronto Posts:279 Points:240,340 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 2:00:10 AM Ignore jetta_gia Report Abuse no
jetta_gia Veteran Author Toronto Posts:279 Points:240,340 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 2:00:09 AM Ignore jetta_gia Report Abuse no
jetta_gia Veteran Author Toronto Posts:279 Points:240,340 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 2:00:09 AM Ignore jetta_gia Report Abuse no
jetta_gia Veteran Author Toronto Posts:279 Points:240,340 Joined:Mar 2011	Message Posted: Jan 16, 2012 2:00:08 AM Ignore jetta_gia Report Abuse no
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2012 8:26:29 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse I have read that there are about 20 different gasoline mixes available in the USA depending on the area and the time of year. California has it's own mixture as well as most of Arizona. I used to live in Cal and the mileage was lower than it was when you burned gas from Nevada and Oregon. At the time it was straight gas in Oregon and Nevada but in Cal they mixed MBT which was subsequently found to pollute water and was then banned in favor of Ethanol. And to top it off they had the highest gas tax around with gas that gave the poorest mileage. Unbelievable but true. But what I need is to know the numbers but it is hard to compare one area to another though.
Cummins2500 Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,128 Points:752,375 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2012 7:39:26 AM Ignore Cummins2500 Report Abuse Winter fuel, one reason for lower mpg other then the longer warm up time because of cold temps is the fact the EPA allows the tank farm to mix in Butane that stuff is good for octane rating & for extra profits but bad for us the end user as it lower your fuel mileage.
WES03 Champion Author Maryland Posts:4,838 Points:1,264,395 Joined:Feb 2009	Message Posted: Jan 15, 2012 5:30:53 AM Ignore WES03 Report Abuse Never heard of it.
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 10:26:05 PM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse Houkster I am not sure about the time length that a fuel injection system is in open loop but my understanding is that especially with the heated O2 sensors the time is very short because you will need to control the mixture quickly after starting to control emissions and get reasonable running. On my car it seems to take about 30 seconds or so when very cold and I can't tell how long if the weather is warm or if the car has been recently run and still warm. On newer cars with multiple O2 sensors the car may stay in open loop longer but all of my cars only have one O2 sensor so with them it does not matter if the catalytic converter is even there.(That is why their emissions are not as good as the newer cars with more controls) The reading of O2 is taken before the exhaust hits the catalytic converter. Some older cars like most of mine don't have but one wire to the O2 sensor and they go to closed loop in a short period of time but the O2 sensor really only works well after they have warmed up. They emit more unburned fuel than the later cars too. I don't know about any standard for how long they can stay in open loop but most systems go to closed loop quickly because it would be a driveablity issue otherwise. The thermostat can only regulate an engines temp between it first opens and when it becomes completely open. I have operated cars in temperatures from about -40F to little over 105 F. I have never seen the kind of regulation of temperature that you spoke. At the cold end I have covered as much as 3/4 of the radiator to get the temperature high enough to heat the inside of the car and have seen the operating temperture get much higher than the rated temperature on the thermostat.
ttoyota Champion Author Boston Posts:1,561 Points:119,935 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 6:45:41 PM Ignore ttoyota Report Abuse never heard of it, too expensive
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,340 Points:693,335 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 2:31:24 PM Ignore Houckster Report Abuse JIMMY544 writes: To Houkster I would say: Have you actually measured the operating temperature of your engines during the summer and the winter? ____ Yes, I have. I have a CarChip EX that is always in use. It reports the engine temperature every 5 seconds. It has been in use for 8 years now. Temperatures range from about 185-195 regardless of the time of year. You note that there are times when it is so cold that the engine cannot reach normal operating temperature. I had not considered this as I live in the South where the winters are much more moderate. JIMMY544 writes: The fuel injection system in my car does not significantly run longer in open loop from summer to winter driving. It is one of the heated O2 sensors and it runs only in open loop to start after about 30 seconds then it is in closed loop. _____ This was not my understanding and after investigating some links, I think you are much closer to the truth than I am. How long the car stays in open loop depends upon how long it takes to "light up" the catalytic converter and how long it takes for the cat to reach full efficiency. This will vary with the vehicle and its age. I was unable to find a time or determine if there is a government standard for how long the car can run in open loop nor can the engine temperature be correlated with the temperature of the cat. It would be nice if you would supply a link that would give me a fuller understanding of this technology.
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 11:54:14 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse One of the reasons I started this thread is to see if anyone here had used this product. So far all I have heard from are people who have not used this product but know it won't work for a variety of reasons; none of which I find particularly persuasive. The expense argument is a potent reason why one would not use this product. To Houkster I would say: Have you actually measured the operating temperature of your engines during the summer and the winter? You will find a greater difference than you think. I did not think about BTU content variation between Summer and Winter blends of gasoline but I don't know how much difference there is do you? Is it 1%, 5% 10%? The fuel injection system in my car does not significantly run longer in open loop from summer to winter driving. It is one of the heated O2 sensors and it runs only in open loop to start after about 30 seconds then it is in closed loop. Now that said it may run richer in closed loop until the engine is up to temp and that may change fuel economy summer vs Winter. Such differences tend toward insignificance on long trips such as the 9 coast to coast trips that I have taken in the last ten years. We do have thermostats to help maintain the engine temperatures but only to degree. Once the thermostat is completely open and the outside temperature increases there is a point where engine temperatures start climbing regardless and you may have driven in cold enough weather where the themostat is mostly closed and you need to cover part of the radiator to get enough heat for the cabin. I have experienced both conditions.
PatAZ Champion Author Tucson Posts:9,244 Points:122,280 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 10:38:33 AM Ignore PatAZ Report Abuse Too expensive for me to ever consider.
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,340 Points:693,335 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 10:37:14 AM Ignore Houckster Report Abuse Cummins2500 writes: I don't see how the coolant can increase your mpg. _____ They mention that because the coolant has a much high boil point, you can set the cooling fan to come on at a higher temperature than it would normally and you can run a higher engine temperature which, theoretically means better fuel efficiency. Of course then you'd have to run a true synthetic oil in both the engine and transmission to be able to handle those higher temperatures. Practically speaking, I think Evans claims overstep the realities. Maybe on some cars you can set the fan to come on later but many owners of many engines don't have a choice of thermostat that can run. My Ranger, for example, has 180 and 195 degree thermostats and I'm running the 195 degree one now. I'm not sure if the fan is adjustable in any way. The Evans coolant, if it does all it says, will be valuable to people who drive their vehicles hard whether it be in stop'n'go traffic or hauling heavy loads, especially in warmer climates. On the surface, it would seem that the Evans coolant would be a problem-solver but there is a sticking point: Other cooling system components like hoses may need to be replaced. Then you're faced with getting a mechanic that's willing to drain the coolant and keep it clean before reinstalling it. If you've got a mechanic who is one your side, OK, but sometimes that's not the case and you don't want someone putting dirty coolant back in the engine. A word to the wise: If you're going to convert to this stuff, make double sure your cooling system is in great shape. **** JIMMY544 writes: Have you ever noticed that your car gets better mileage in the summer than in the winter? _____ To conclude that the better mileage is because of high engine temperatures is highly suspect. We have thermostats in our cars to regulate engine temperatures so summer or winter, your engine will run within a few degree year round if the cooling system is in good shape. Also, summer fuel formulas have a higher BTU content, engines warm up faster in summer and run in open loop when fuel efficiency is lowest less. Those are the real reasons for the increased mileage. [Edited by: Houckster at 1/14/2012 1:42:29 PM EST]
Cummins2500 Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,128 Points:752,375 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Jan 14, 2012 8:32:14 AM Ignore Cummins2500 Report Abuse jimmy544:nd how do you know that your engine would not be happy at 250-300 F?" Its a diesel engine, it does not like 250 & higher heat as bad things happen at high temps, as for age of my HOAT coolant, it states its good for 5 years/100K, so far 6 years and its still test good, I've also learned from knowledgeable people to use distilled water to help prevent problems from the many different minerals & chemicals in water.
maryph1958 Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:1,420 Points:283,095 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Jan 13, 2012 4:39:10 PM Ignore maryph1958 Report Abuse no
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 13, 2012 4:27:38 PM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse I understand the price problem that you have yet how much do you spend on changing the coolant every two years or so? Or how often do you change it? And how do you know that your engine would not be happy at 250-300 F? With water based coolant that would be so but there would be no pressure at 250-300f as opposed to the water based coolant which would have boiled over at that temp. What would happen with your engine with this coolant?
Cummins2500 Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,128 Points:752,375 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Jan 13, 2012 10:24:15 AM Ignore Cummins2500 Report Abuse Here is what it would cost me to change over to Evans, 7 gallons of coolant at $43.95 comes to $307.65 so I don't think I'll be trying it any time soon. Also my engine would not be happy with 250-300F coolant temps.
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 13, 2012 7:50:12 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse Fuel economy can be increased by increasing the base operating temperature of the engine to a higher level. Have you ever noticed that your car gets better mileage in the summer than in the winter? The base operating temperature of your engine is higher in the summer than in the winter. Many truckers and some cars will close off portions of their radiators to maintain a higher winter operating temperature. With this coolant the base operating temperature of the engine is increased as the boiling point of the Evans Waterless Coolant is 375-400 F. Most cars now are running 15-20 psi on the cooling systems and base operating temps are up to 200-230F. With the Evans you might get it up around 250 -300F safely. Probably there might be some lifespan shortening of rubber components such as belt and the rubber hoses but according to Jay Leno he has not had any problems. Thermodynamic theory says the higher the temperatures that are developed the more energy can be extracted as kinetic energy. I have not tried this but I think it worth trying. One of my cars needs to have the blower motor and heater core replaced because there is a minor leak. When it is finished and all rubber hoses replaced it will be a candidate for the Evans coolant.
PaylessKY Champion Author Kentucky Posts:8,715 Points:1,580,475 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jan 13, 2012 7:20:02 AM Ignore PaylessKY Report Abuse No, I use what is recommended by the vehicle manufacturer.
WEDDY Champion Author Phoenix Posts:3,239 Points:1,036,545 Joined:Oct 2009	Message Posted: Jan 13, 2012 5:48:48 AM Ignore WEDDY Report Abuse I would be interested in finding out about it.
OceanArcher Champion Author Mississippi Posts:5,703 Points:1,327,400 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2012 4:21:03 PM Ignore OceanArcher Report Abuse I don't understand -- how can a waterless engine coolant save me on my gas mileage?
hailsupersport Champion Author Cincinnati Posts:1,230 Points:231,060 Joined:Dec 2011	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2012 11:06:49 AM Ignore hailsupersport Report Abuse no
Cummins2500 Champion Author Iowa Posts:3,128 Points:752,375 Joined:Jan 2007	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2012 10:13:49 AM Ignore Cummins2500 Report Abuse I don't see how the coolant can increase your mpg.
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2012 9:22:24 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse They say you should replace regular coolant every couple of years and Dextrol every 5 years. coolant is not cheap any more either at 6-9 dollars a gallon. In my car in ten years or so I would spend 30-45 dollars on coolant. So if I never had to change some 43 dollar coolant I would make it back in 10 years. A wash but if it gave me an extra 2 mpg it would pay back a lot faster.
RalphHightower Champion Author South Carolina Posts:3,299 Points:688,505 Joined:May 2011	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2012 3:11:00 AM Ignore RalphHightower Report Abuse Looks interesting. I watched the video and although it is expensive, it doesn't need replacing like regular coolant.
festerpq Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,069 Points:608,170 Joined:Sep 2011	Message Posted: Jan 12, 2012 2:15:37 AM Ignore festerpq Report Abuse No, way too expensive.
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,340 Points:693,335 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2012 6:29:47 PM Ignore Houckster Report Abuse BTW, the coolant for gassers and light-duty diesels is $43.95.
Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:9,340 Points:693,335 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2012 5:59:24 PM Ignore Houckster Report Abuse OK, here's a properly formatted link.Jay Leno's Garage - Evans Waterless Engine Coolant
jimmy544 Champion Author Boston Posts:4,104 Points:652,880 Joined:Feb 2011	Message Posted: Jan 11, 2012 6:14:26 AM Ignore jimmy544 Report Abuse Thanks DesertRat I should have posted that site but I was interested in what experience others had with this produce. Jay Leno could not possibly drive all of his cars very much. How many cars a day could he drive while doing his daily show and everything else he needs to do. However, Jay is a good advocate and he certainly knows a lot.
DesertRat2011 Champion Author Riverside Posts:3,612 Points:484,830 Joined:Jun 2011	Message Posted: Jan 10, 2012 8:17:43 AM Ignore DesertRat2011 Report Abuse http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/ for those who want to check it out